Response to new paper: "Generic warp drives violate the null energy condition"

 Hello all,

I was pointed to a paper that appeared on the arXiv yesterday (https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.03079v1). I am glad to see people taking a close look into my paper (https://doi.org/10.1088/1361-6382/abe692, and the latest arXiv version https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.07125v2) and the other recent papers on the topic of warp drives (https://doi.org/10.1088/1361-6382/abdf6ehttps://arxiv.org/abs/2104.06488). I have also been contacted in the last months by several other researchers working to reproduce and expand upon my results. I wanted to make a running post on this paper and a series of posts on other appraisals of my work in this field and the resulting discussions.

After reading through their entire paper, I noticed that this new manuscript seems to have overlooked my complete discussion of the weak energy condition (WEC) contained in my published paper, instead referring to an early arXiv manuscript that tracked quantities of energy, momentum, etc. in only an Eulerian frame. This single frame of reference does not cover the breadth of the WEC, which requires an examination of the energy from the reference frames of all time-like observers. This is the new paper's stated central issue with my work, that it does not fully address the WEC. Fortunately, this limitation was addressed in the peer-review process and the final version of the paper published by Classical and Quantum Gravity contains a presentation of the WEC in full. 

I contacted the authors of the new paper to point this out and they supplied a reply this evening as I was writing this post. I will make an update when I have had a chance to think through their new comments. At this point, I will say that the disagreement has yet to be resolved. 


Enjoy your Tuesday evening,

Erik

Update (6/25/21):

The conversation with the authors of `Generic Warp Drives' continued for a few days after the initial post. The reply to my initial message reiterated and elaborated on their positions in their manuscript. These new details that much of the confusion was regarding the origin of some components used in the WEC calculations. The authors assumed that the stress tensor principle values had been introduced ad hoc using an assumed form of the stress-energy from the plasma instead of directly from the soliton geometry and therefore did not demonstrate non-negative energy. In my response, I pointed out that every term used in the calculation was derived directly from the soliton's space-time metric, and therefore was a valid test of the WEC. There were other comments addressed in the correspondence, but this was the central point.

Also, the same group put out another paper this month (https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.05002), as indicated in the comments. The new manuscript introduces engineered metrics in the form of beams of space-time curvature that can induce stresses such as pressure or tension forces or more general shearing stresses onto objects that pass into the beam path. This is an interesting paper exploring another science-fiction technology (tractor beams) within the scope of general relativity. I am still absorbing the paper's contents and may have more to say soon.

Update (7/25/21):

I recently gave a talk the (virtual) 16th Marcel Grossmann meeting (http://www.icra.it/mg/mg16/) where there was a mini-session warp drives. I mention this here as Matt Visser, one of the authors to the two papers above, was also invited to give a talk in that session. Dr. Visser mostly focused on the more recent tractor/pressor/stressor beam (https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.05002), but also took the opportunity to review the shortcomings of the recent warp drive papers (Fell/Heisenberg, Bobrick/Martire, and my own). My own talk directly followed Dr. Visser's, allowing me to directly address his comments and demonstrate ow my soliton persists as an example of a positive energy warp drive. Discussion continued in the Q&A, where I think we were able to make progress.

You can watch the whole session on YouTube, which was recently released by the International Center for Relativistic Astrophysics Network (https://youtu.be/NqN1c-2fv8Y).

Update (11/2/21):

The 16th Marcel Grossmann meeting is putting out a proceedings, where speakers submit an article on the topic of their talk and the set is published as a collection (in this case by World Scientific). Matt Visser and his co-authors posted their contribution to the proceedings on the arXiv (https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.14926). Unfortunately, not much from our conversation at the meeting made its way into the article, which essentially follows the contents of their tractor/pressure/stressor beam paper.

Comments

  1. Hi Erik, this might be a little blasphemous, but bear in mind physics is really not my forte, so my question may sound a little dumb, but here we go: In many sites and videos discussing FTL travel and Warp Drives, people say that, the moment the bubble is gone, the resulting shockwave would completely destroy the destination. Why's that. Is there a framework that would allow you to slow down at FTL to sub-light speeds without becoming a potential mass murderer?

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    1. Versions of this question have come up a few times. I gave a short answer on a previous post (https://eriklentzphd.blogspot.com/2021/03/reddit-q.html), but may make a stand-alone post once I perform the calculations on my own solutions.

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    2. I was trying to find an answer for this for sci-fi writing research purposes, and came across this quote from Alcubierre from this article https://innovationtoronto.com/2013/05/scientists-refine-warp-drive-concept-using-space-time-distortion/


      “However it is based on a one-dimensional calculation. I think that in all probability when one considers three-dimensional space-time the effect will be much less severe,”

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  2. Thought: What happens when you create a warp inside of current warp bubble. I'm just curious as to what would happen if such a scenario would arise.

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    1. I imagine the interior bubble (INT) would propagate normally until it collided with the shell of the exterior bubble (EXT) as the space-time inside of EXT is flat.

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  3. What is your reply to the people who say that, while your paper is mathematically interesting, it doesn't make superluminal warp drives any more practical, as it will always be impossible to accelerate a warp bubble to those superluminal speeds?

    As far as I understand, you seem to believe, or at least hope, that you, or someone else, will at some point find a mathematical and physically possible solution to accelerate the warp bubble to superluminal speeds, so you do not believe that it's physically impossible to accelerate a warp bubble to superluminal speeds, but you can not yet proof that. Is that correct?

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    1. Addressing the horizon problem and satisfying the dominant energy conditions, key challenges to accelerating past the speed of light, are very much on my mind. I hope to make a post soon that lays out the state of the art.

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  4. Does reducing the warp bubble radius to a Planck length avoid the debris problem?....at this speeds you might quantum tunnel trough everything

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    1. I think there might be an easier way around the debris problem than shrinking down to the Planck scale.

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  5. Does the plasma needs necessarily to be massive or just very hot? If the plasma just needs to be very hot why not an electron plasma?

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. Maximizing the charge-to-mass ratio of the plasma is a good place to start. It is relatively straightforward to lower it.

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  6. Erik, in your personal opinion how long until we have the first Warp Drive ?

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  7. https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.05002 Does this paper offer some insight for you, what do you think about it?

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    1. This paper provides and interesting account of the forces and other stresses experienced by objects encountering a soliton or beam of curvature. I am not yet finished with the paper, but may write a new blog post about it when I have a better grasp.

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  8. hello sir... first off i am a huge fan of your work...especially on the warp drives which i aspire to research myself....my question being....in what areas of physics do i need knowledge to theorize and research on warp drives ...fyi i am currently pursuing a engineering degree in mechanical

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  9. Dear Dr. Lenz,

    Exactly a year ago, on August 10, 2020, your article “Breaking the warp barrier: hyper-fast solitons in Einstein – Maxwell-plasma theory” was published, which aroused genuine interest among readers who were looking forward to the future of science and technology, in particular breaking the light barrier.

    Since the appearance of the Alcubierre metric, scientists have tried to solve the problems associated with the violation of the weak energy condition - to level or reduce the required volumes of exotic matter with negative energy density. Thanks to your decision, the need for negative mass has disappeared, theoretically allowing the generation of warp fields through normal, positive energy density.

    As a young scientist dealing with space-time topologies, I am interested in a number of questions:

    1) Have you managed to reduce the energy consumption of the warp drive by several tens of orders of magnitude, or the problem of energy production remains unsolvable?

    2) Is there a theoretical possibility of reducing the required amount of energy to achievable in the foreseeable future? What role can existing systems for reducing energy consumption (for example, increasing the thickness of the warp bubble) play in this?

    3) What is the probability that in the coming decades we will be able to create and register small curvature fields, or will we witness the appearance of superluminal solitons near natural sources of electrically conductive energetic plasma?

    Best regards, Anton Sobolev

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  10. I noticed that in the paper about tractor beams they suggested that the Energy Conditions may not be fundamental concepts to physics...but if that is so then, why would their violation be important? I'd like to understand.

    Also, I have a question, why is it a problem that when the warp bubble moves past the speed of light it becomes casually disconnected from the rest of the universe? You called it the horizon problem right?

    I mean I understand why it is a problem since it would make it impossible to change course or change speed, but I mean the ship would still get from point A to point B, right?

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    1. Sure, but it would not be a very practical means of transportation. The FTL soliton with a horizon could reach its destination in record time, but anyone inside the bubble wouldn't know it as it would be impossible to see the universe outside.

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    2. Indeed but I mean, couldn't they just make the calculation in advance? What I mean is, couldn't they just calculate the amount of time that it would take to reach the destination at a certain speed and then program the drive to disengage itself once that amount of time passes?

      For instance, let's say that the soliton travels at 2 times the speed of light, it would take 2 years to reach Proxima Centaury yes? With that in mind you could just program the drive to disengaget itself after 2 years of trouble, which would be feasible in the absense of time dilation yes?

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  11. I can't help but notice that in one of the papers they mention that the energy conditions may not be, or even that they most definately aren't, fundamental physics... if that is so, I can't help but wonder, why are they held in such high regard? And if they weren't fundamental physics wouldn't it mean that phenomena that would 'violate' them be possible? What's your take?

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  12. Hello Eric! Perhaps I will ask a rather stupid question, what do you think about the inertia of a soliton? Alexey Bobrik and Gianni Martyr in their work "Implementation of physical deforming drives" talk about the absence of solutions that allow a soliton to "automatically" go at any speed, not to mention superluminal speed. What are the ways of modifying the solutions to make the bubble travel faster than light? Thank you in advance!

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  13. "The point here is that the author has not actually solved the Einstein equations,
    he has only solved part of the Einstein equations — for the density, flux, and trace of
    the stress. This is not enough to obtain a valid solution of the Einstein equations —
    the author would also need to consider the remaining trace-free part of the stress tensor."

    This particular extract stated above comes from a submission by three physicists in response to your paper of last March. Looking through it (as best as I could understand) and they seem to suggest that your original analysis was somewhat incomplete over all of the field equations. I, am unable to know what their criticism was about, but I'm sure that you have possibly examined their paper. Can you say anything about where you are at at this time with regards to a rebuttal? I was very heartened by what you had written in March 2021 and I hope that (what appears to be a snag) may be answered by yourself in the near future.
    Here is the link (in case you, by chance hadn't seen it):
    [2105.03079v1] Generic warp drives violate the null energy condition (arxiv.org)
    Hoping that you will have success in your future endeavor; fingers crossed here.

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  14. Hello Erik,

    It seems in the Q&A video from last summer that you linked to that the discussion remained open-ended. Since then the paper by Santiago, Schuster and Visser has been published. I'd be curious to know if there's been more discussion on the topic and where it stands?

    Thank you!

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